[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

that's the way it's been in the tourneys I played. Tom Bass even.

Par is definitely not always 3. Par is typically defined by the course designer and/or the tournament director.

I know for sure that the Texas States Tournament for the past three years (two of them at Tom Bass) has used realistic par values, that means Par 4's and 5's on longer or tougher holes as appropriate.

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

Yes I agree that there are places that lists the pars differently, but based on tourney play, like at Tom Bass where there are par 4's and 5's, they are changed to par 3's for tourneys. Mostly, everyone just plays them as par 3's so they are used to it come tourney time. There was also discussion on this board about a tourney. I don't remember if it was States or what, but rounds were rated differently for some because of the wind....could've even been rain, but can't remember.

The only time Par really matters for anything is in a tournament when a player misses their starting hole(s). They card Par+4 for each hole missed. That's why it's important for TD's to set realistic pars: so that the penalties are appropriate.

Consider a really tough hole in a tournament, could be a long wooded real Par 6. Say that the weather conditions are poor too with rain or wind. Most players are carding 7's, 8's, 9's or worse on that hole. If the lazy TD has declared "all holes are Par 3" and you find out that you're starting your second round on that tough hole you might consider getting back from lunch about five minutes late and taking your Par 3+4=7 on that hole and probably coming out ahead of most players without throwing a disc yourself. (Of course intentionally circumventing the rules is also grounds for disqualification, but that's another debate.)

That's not going to happen very often, but it should never be allowed to happen at all if TD's do their job and make sure the course has real Par values.


The discussion surrounding the 2009 TX States ratings for rounds on the second day came about because tee times were used and thus some divisions tee'd off earlier with calmer weather and some divisions tee'd off mid-day with worse wind conditions and the really late tee times were back to lesser wind. So the discussion was whether or not to split the divisions up for ratings purposes. Nothing to do with Par values.

Originally Posted by Miller

I've been places where the par is not listed as 3. I know it depends on distance/foliage/etc. I just didn't know if wind could be a consideration since it's not always constant.

I've never heard of a situation where Par values were based on wind as a factor... but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done before.