Piney Woods Dec 11-12

[Suemac]

Practice brings us closer to perfection. Keep up the good works, and yes, having the seasoned experience of DGC has moved you guys up the curve quickly, GOOD JOB!

[ChaseTheAce]

Originally Posted by derek

what courses did the open players play each round?

Saturday:
Red Longs and Gold Short
Sunday:
Gold Long (terrible course) and Blue Longs

[ChaseTheAce]

basically the tournament had nothing aside from the $1500 added cash to make it an A tier. If it were a B tier I still would have been disappointed with the overall tournament experience.

Piney Woods is a fantastic disc golf complex with 3 separate courses on-site, but the courses need a bit of tweaking. The Gold course (Dogwood) is pretty fun from the shorts, but the long configuration is one of the worst "technical" courses I've ever played, especially for tournament situations. A hole doesn't have to be impossible or unfair for it to be complex or challenging.

[TBender]

Originally Posted by ChaseTheAce

-The USDGC qualifier spots available were based upon handicapped player ratings...

To be fair here, I believe this is the USDGC's request, NOT the decision by Jerry or Josh.

[ChaseTheAce]

Originally Posted by TBender

To be fair here, I believe this is the USDGC's request, NOT the decision by Jerry or Josh.

you're right, but that still doesn't change my opinion of the tournament. Jerry and Josh were both very nice dudes, but they seemed very disorganized and unprepared to run such a large scale event. maybe it went smoother in the past, but this year definitely did not reflect the caliber of the tournament. basically, I paid for an A tier that wasn't even up to par for B Tier standards.

[Suemac]

Originally Posted by ChaseTheAce

you're right, but that still doesn't change my opinion of the tournament. Jerry and Josh were both very nice dudes, but they seemed very disorganized and unprepared to run such a large scale event. maybe it went smoother in the past, but this year definitely did not reflect the caliber of the tournament. basically, I paid for an A tier that wasn't even up to par for B Tier standards.

I can't wait till it's your turn to be in the TD seat! Over the years Jerry has run rightous events, and in an effort to appease the masses, it grew to the A-tier, USDGC qualifier it is today. When everyone wants to be a player..............it's a real challenge. So, be SURE TO HELP US WITH STATES AND MASTERS NEXT SPRING.

BIGGER ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER. Something they might not teach you in college, but very important concept.

And how much money did they raise for charity? More than we have in H-town.

[ChaseTheAce]

Originally Posted by Suemac

I can't wait till it's your turn to be in the TD seat! Over the years Jerry has run rightous events, and in an effort to appease the masses, it grew to the A-tier, USDGC qualifier it is today. When everyone wants to be a player..............it's a real challenge. So, be SURE TO HELP US WITH STATES AND MASTERS NEXT SPRING.

BIGGER ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER. Something they might not teach you in college, but very important concept.

And how much money did they raise for charity? More than we have in H-town.

When I become a TD I will be sure to remember this tournament and acknowledge how not to run an A TIER.

First off, the tournament was VERY BIG, so I find your point about "bigger isn't always better" to be irrelevant to your argument. It seems like some of us aren't keeping up with the times. Disc golf is changing quickly and might be leaving some of the complacent old schoolers in the past. As the quality of players continues to increase at a fast pace, isn't it fair that the quality of tournaments keeps up with this trend?

Regardless of your thoughts or opinions on the tournament, you WERE NOT at THIS tournament. For all I know and as highly unlikely as it seems, last year's Piney Woods could have been the best freaking tournament of the decade!!! Unfortunately, this year's was farrrrrrrrr from that.

Next year I will just mail them a $30 check for charity instead of wasting $80 on entry, $40 on hotel rooms, and God knows how much on food and gas lol

But don't listen to me... I'm just a cocky college student who doesn't care about the future of the sport. Ask MPO Miles Seaborn why he didn't show up this year he's got more credibility than I do.

If you want States to be good, start by not capping the MPO division and allow as many Pros to play as possible. After all, it is an NT right? If I am in town during Masters 2011, I will definitely be shuttling the old farts back and forth between hotels and the course. Why? Because Steve and the crew are ambitious and open to ideas of how to make this the BEST tournament it can be.

[SpringDGLover]

Originally Posted by ChaseTheAce

When I become a TD I will be sure to remember this tournament and acknowledge how not to run an A TIER.

First off, the tournament was VERY BIG, so I find your point about "bigger isn't always better" to be irrelevant to your argument. It seems like some of us aren't keeping up with the times. Disc golf is changing quickly and might be leaving some of the complacent old schoolers in the past. As the quality of players continues to increase at a fast pace, isn't it fair that the quality of tournaments keeps up with this trend?

Regardless of your thoughts or opinions on the tournament, you WERE NOT at THIS tournament. For all I know and as highly unlikely as it seems, last year's Piney Woods could have been the best freaking tournament of the decade!!! Unfortunately, this year's was farrrrrrrrr from that.

Next year I will just mail them a $30 check for charity instead of wasting $80 on entry, $40 on hotel rooms, and God knows how much on food and gas lol

But don't listen to me... I'm just a cocky college student who doesn't care about the future of the sport. Ask MPO Miles Seaborn why he didn't show up this year he's got more credibility than I do.

If you want States to be good, start by not capping the MPO division and allow as many Pros to play as possible. After all, it is an NT right? If I am in town during Masters 2011, I will definitely be shuttling the old farts back and forth between hotels and the course. Why? Because Steve and the crew are ambitious and open to ideas of how to make this the BEST tournament it can be.

I basically concur with everything said by Chase. It is a great event to raise money for charity but it was not an A Tier and was barely a B Tier in my eyes. Plus and I think the most important issue of all is the Dogwood Gold course is absolute garbage. Probably the most unfair gimmicky course Ive ever witnessed. I have never seen more great drives end in punishment to the player while locals got away with garbage shots and shot well. There is a reason many Open players were heard saying "wont be coming back" and why Miles, Nikko, McCabe and others didnt show this year.

[tarazarr]

As you know Terry....Me being a "lefty" and all... I could say "there are allot of "unfair" courses right here in Houston." (because many or even dare I say the majority of holes are designed for the RHBH throw, with an ending fade of the disk to the left) But personally I don't think there is any such thing as an "Unfair Course". A course is what it is, it must be negotiated by all players equally.
So for example if I can't throw a disc RHBH, it would be a good idea for me to develope a LHFH or land hand flick throw to simulate the RHBH flight pattern. Either way it's my game and if I don't develope a much needed throw, it doesn't necessarily make the course unfair. It just means I need to develope more shots that I can control in different ways to get the desired flight path outcome.

Now I would agree that there are courses that many people find "not very fun" to play.... because the hole designs do not allow a player to get maximum distance from their throws... I mean there are courses who's "lines" (if you will) are not really what a disc is capable of doing.

Take for instance the infamous hole at Shawshank that people just absolutely loathe.... The 3 putt hole... I know there are some players who have developed the ability to go over everything and accurately land in the green area... but for the majority of us out there we throw 3 putts and shake our heads... Now this hole in and of itself...I've never had an issue with, it's a different type of challenge on the course. We get so used to Drive, Approach, Putt....or Drive, Putt, Putt... that we get irritated with a hole that is Putt, Putt, Putt... At Shawshank this hole is just a different challenge, it's not unfair, it is what it is, and for those few who can go over the top (without a mando rule in place) it can actually become an advantage hole for them... well because they've practiced and developed that up and over accurate shot..
Now if a designer created 18 holes just like that for a course, I admit, it wouldn't be very (if any) fun to play because we all like seeing disc fly on a great line for a long distance... and I would be upset if I had driven 4 hours to play a course like that...
Those garbage shots as you called them that the locals were getting away with..... well those were the shots apparently that the hole called for, and the great drives.... well maybe they would have been a great drive on a more open hole but obviously not a great drive when your left with a bad lie..

probably the same reason why you don't see professional golfers entering "putt..putt" golf tournaments... It's no fun for them, their advantage of accurate distance is completely negated.. Is putt putt golf gimmicky? It's goofy for sure, but every player has to negotiate the "windmill" hole equally. Tiger Woods has no more advantage on the Windmill hole than my 5 year old.... I'd say that's pretty fair...

Merry Christmas Terry

[SpringDGLover]

Originally Posted by tarazarr

As you know Terry....Me being a "lefty" and all... I could say "there are allot of "unfair" courses right here in Houston." (because many or even dare I say the majority of holes are designed for the RHBH throw, with an ending fade of the disk to the left) But personally I don't think there is any such thing as an "Unfair Course". A course is what it is, it must be negotiated by all players equally.
So for example if I can't throw a disc RHBH, it would be a good idea for me to develope a LHFH or land hand flick throw to simulate the RHBH flight pattern. Either way it's my game and if I don't develope a much needed throw, it doesn't necessarily make the course unfair. It just means I need to develope more shots that I can control in different ways to get the desired flight path outcome.

Now I would agree that there are courses that many people find "not very fun" to play.... because the hole designs do not allow a player to get maximum distance from their throws... I mean there are courses who's "lines" (if you will) are not really what a disc is capable of doing.

Take for instance the infamous hole at Shawshank that people just absolutely loathe.... The 3 putt hole... I know there are some players who have developed the ability to go over everything and accurately land in the green area... but for the majority of us out there we throw 3 putts and shake our heads... Now this hole in and of itself...I've never had an issue with, it's a different type of challenge on the course. We get so used to Drive, Approach, Putt....or Drive, Putt, Putt... that we get irritated with a hole that is Putt, Putt, Putt... At Shawshank this hole is just a different challenge, it's not unfair, it is what it is, and for those few who can go over the top (without a mando rule in place) it can actually become an advantage hole for them... well because they've practiced and developed that up and over accurate shot..
Now if a designer created 18 holes just like that for a course, I admit, it wouldn't be very (if any) fun to play because we all like seeing disc fly on a great line for a long distance... and I would be upset if I had driven 4 hours to play a course like that...
Those garbage shots as you called them that the locals were getting away with..... well those were the shots apparently that the hole called for, and the great drives.... well maybe they would have been a great drive on a more open hole but obviously not a great drive when your left with a bad lie..

probably the same reason why you don't see professional golfers entering "putt..putt" golf tournaments... It's no fun for them, their advantage of accurate distance is completely negated.. Is putt putt golf gimmicky? It's goofy for sure, but every player has to negotiate the "windmill" hole equally. Tiger Woods has no more advantage on the Windmill hole than my 5 year old.... I'd say that's pretty fair...

Merry Christmas Terry

Have you ever played putt putt with a pro Scott? I'd gander to say you havent and if you did they would own you. Fact is that Pro's are Pro's for a reason and when they say a course is bad its probably pretty bad. Also there were many lefties out there and they weren't raving about the course either. This idea that some courses are less fun to play but not bad is perposterious. The concept that I have to develop new shots is a sound one until you realize a disc can only do so much. I have a full bag and can pretty much throw any shot there is, but I have yet to see a shot that can make a disc go 370 feet dead straight then at the last second go left 30ft then right another 50ft then stop, if you know of such a shot please show me. That would have been the only way to even get a 4 on that hole. Mind you it was a par 4. Go read some of Houk's course design principles. Rule number one, a good drive should not be penalized by an unfair landing zone. These were everywhere on that course. I find your opinion half cocked and actually absurd. You may not mean to, but I find your posts to be very condesending, 's dont cover up the fact that your talking down to me about an opinion. An opinion no less on a tournament and course you've never even been to.