Piney Woods Dec 11-12

[tarazarr]

Originally Posted by SpringDGLover

Have you ever played putt putt with a pro Scott? I'd gander to say you havent and if you did they would own you. Fact is that Pro's are Pro's for a reason and when they say a course is bad its probably pretty bad. Also there were many lefties out there and they weren't raving about the course either. This idea that some courses are less fun to play but not bad is perposterious. The concept that I have to develop new shots is a sound one until you realize a disc can only do so much. I have a full bag and can pretty much throw any shot there is, but I have yet to see a shot that can make a disc go 370 feet dead straight then at the last second go left 30ft then right another 50ft then stop, if you know of such a shot please show me. That would have been the only way to even get a 4 on that hole. Mind you it was a par 4. Go read some of Houk's course design principles. Rule number one, a good drive should not be penalized by an unfair landing zone. These were everywhere on that course. I find your opinion half cocked and actually absurd. You may not mean to, but I find your posts to be very condesending, 's dont cover up the fact that your talking down to me about an opinion. An opinion no less on a tournament and course you've never even been to.

If you thought I was talking down to you, then yes you completely mis understood what i was saying...

You used the word "unfair" not "bad" and the point I was trying to make is Unfair? ....Unfair to who? Should a lefty call all the Houston courses unfair? Because they are designed for righty's? no.... it is what it is... The idea of what a great drive is and what a great drive isn't, is very subjective... If you have a hole that dead ends at 300', is a 500' drive a great drive? Not on that hole it isn't

Is the hole you described above a greatly designed hole? probably not... I'd agree with you there, in fact I already did agree with you on that point in my earlier post... but that in of itself doesn't mean it's unfair... Everyone playing that hole has the same tuff shot... I would agree with you the hole your describing sounds like a poorly designed hole... but who's it unfair to?

I find it funny disc golfers who use the terms "unfair" and "getting punished for great drives"..... Who is it unfair too? and a great drive??? what exactly is a great drive??? Is it one that goes 500'? One thats goes straight? Or one that does an "S"? Or one that fades left? Right?
Or is one that leaves you with the best lie possible for the next shot, no matter how wacky the hole is.. A great drive can be very different on each hole... It's subjective is all I was saying..

Sorry if you felt offended

[ChaseTheAce]

WOW... that was the most long-winded and irrelevant post i have ever read. was there even a point to what you just posted? are you high?

what kind of mentality is "a course is what it is" . of course there are bad courses with poorly designed holes. Terry's point about this course in particular was that it has some major flaws in its course design that prevent it from being a memorable course. there are many holes on the Dogwood (Gold) Longs that require players to throw an already difficult shot off the tee and then when they reach the the landing zone, they find that instead of having a look at the basket or an upshot, they are punished by a few random trees in the fairway that should have already been removed. a difficult hole should always be fair. chance or luck should not play a bigger factor on the hole than the shot itself.

in your reference to the 3 putt hole at shawshank, what actually makes it a "good" hole? what kind of unique shot does it teach? I'm sure it will be a big hit with Climo and Schultz at the Masters tournament next year. i can vaguely see your point about switching up the drive, approach, putt routine... Wilco in Austin, for example, has a few holes where a smart player will throw a placement shot with midrange off of the tee, and then follow that with a drive to the basket... but putt, putt, putt, putt? that's just a gimmick, not a challenge.

i find it hard to grasp why you would chime in about a course that you have no previous knowledge of...

i guess once you design a course you become a master of the craft; an expert on course design, belittling those who know nothing of the trade...

oh, here are some so you don't think this post is malicious or impolite

[tarazarr]

as long as you weren't being malicious....it's all good..

[TBender]

The TD's self-criticism...

Jerry's Post-mortem post

[Suemac]

Not every course has to be designed for the "chosen few". Sometimes we understand how playing through the trees can just unnerve some.

MERRY CHRISTMAS GUYS!

GOOD READ, THANK GOD WE ALL LOVE THIS SPORT!

[derek]

I've played the gold course (dogwood) many times and I have to say Chase and Terry are spot on. On alot of the holes, its better to be 'lucky' than 'good'. It does have a few good holes, but many of them are just ridiculous.

We also should apply this same insight to our local courses, as I have been saying (ranting) for a long time now.

[JimKelly]

We also should apply this same insight to our local courses, as I have been saying (ranting) for a long time now.

What local courses have you been (ranting) about? I have not played all of the Houston courses but I can only think of one course that is like Dumbwood Gold. Kingwood is a miniture putt putt version of Dumbwood Gold.

Any time when luck and skill produce similar results, or when skill does not produce a quality score seperation on a hole. The hole/course needs to be adjusted. I might be able to remember 2 examples on some holes down south of Houston...

[griff]

Originally Posted by JimKelly

We also should apply this same insight to our local courses, as I have been saying (ranting) for a long time now.
I might be able to remember 2 examples on some holes down south of Houston...

uh oh jim, here it comes, i'm pretty sure i know what your talkin about , i'd be glad to show you the lines on those holes. you 'll be happy too, there both straight shots.

[scoot_er]

Originally Posted by griff

uh oh jim, here it comes, i'm pretty sure i know what your talkin about , i'd be glad to show you the lines on those holes. you 'll be happy too, there both straight shots.

1 tree on hole 4.......more to come later.

[ChaseTheAce]

Originally Posted by TBender

The TD's self-criticism...

Jerry's Post-mortem post

glad to see that and props to him for acknowledging a few of the issues players had

just solidifies what I have been saying this whole time... go figure

and as far as dogwood goes, I still feel that the course has potential to be a good one. it just needs the insight of an experienced course designer and some of those lines could be great