Birdshot & DGC Present: Black & Blue In Shawshank/Aug. 20, 2011

[ThePatrick]

So you want tin cup with no drop zone.
That's what I wanted.
That still leaves you with a chance to loose it on one hole. That's kind of the point with score separation by the way. Just practice and make the shot. Be the one that makes the 2 and you win in 1 hole.

Btw you can loose on almost any hole on that course. Especially if your putt rolls 45 feet away and you can't hit the comeback.

[derek]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

"Challenging" does not necessarily equal a good hole, nor a good tournament hole.

There are are all sorts of "challenging" holes that are fun to play in casual rounds that do not make good tournament holes.

Agreed, but I would take this further and say that gimmicks are not good in casual rounds either (ie. 90 degree turns on short holes, multiple pentalties, unrealistic S curves, no landing zones, etc.)

[ChingLizard]

I liked the way we played it for USMasters with a "cheeze-out" zone over to the right. I took my easy lay-up 3 on it by choice...I saw a lot of others going for the green, missing it and taking 6's after a couple of attempts.

It seems like doing it that way added lots more options for a player to have to think about - do I want to take a risk and go for a 2 or do I want to play it safe and take an easy 3.

Playing it as a "tin-cup" hole creates flow-of-play issues as not all groups are equally skilled in their abilities to hit that green from the tee and with a full course of players, if one group slows down too much, the rest of the course backs up behind them.

I personally enjoy the strategy options available if there is a lay-up zone.

Which hole is Amen Corner? Is that the new hole right before Death Row?

Larry

[ThePatrick]

Playing that way takes the challenge out of the holes and changes the intention of the hole. It also bell curves the score separation to the middle with a lot of 3's. It leaves almost no twos(there are a handful of people that are capable of making a two and would weenie out if given the option). Houston makes fun of itself for having so many pitch and putt courses and then argues holes that present challenge physically and mentally. There are two tourneys coming up at Moffit if you guys are worried about safe, predictable golf. if you want to face a challenge head on and enjoy some awesome terrain not found anywhere else in the area see you at Shawshank.
(Larry this is not directed at you but I quoted you to answer your question)

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

I liked the way we played it for USMasters with a "cheeze-out" zone over to the right. I took my easy lay-up 3 on it by choice...I saw a lot of others going for the green, missing it and taking 6's after a couple of attempts.

It seems like doing it that way added lots more options for a player to have to think about - do I want to take a risk and go for a 2 or do I want to play it safe and take an easy 3.

Playing it as a "tin-cup" hole creates flow-of-play issues as not all groups are equally skilled in their abilities to hit that green from the tee and with a full course of players, if one group slows down too much, the rest of the course backs up behind them.

I personally enjoy the strategy options available if there is a lay-up zone.

Which hole is Amen Corner? Is that the new hole right before Death Row?

Larry

[ThePatrick]

The rule of 2 was put in place to maximize score separation with speed of play in mind. We also didn't make it tin cup for some and not others because we like it when everyone plays the same course.

[derek]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

Playing that way takes the challenge out of the holes and changes the intention of the hole. It also bell curves the score separation to the middle with a lot of 3's. It leaves almost no twos(there are a handful of people that are capable of making a two and would weenie out if given the option). Houston makes fun of itself for having so many pitch and putt courses and then argues holes that present challenge physically and mentally. There are two tourneys coming up at Moffit if you guys are worried about safe, predictable golf. if you want to face a challenge head on and enjoy some awesome terrain not found anywhere else in the area see you at Shawshank.
(Larry this is not directed at you but I quoted you to answer your question)

I see your point there, I just think that design-wise sometimes people are trying to create technical holes that they dont have the proper distance for. I guess ill just have to come check it out for myself

I just read Eric's review of Shawshank on dgcoursereview and Im basing alot of things on that since i havent played there.

[ThePatrick]

It's a very polarizing course. You love it or hate it. It always brings out controversy. Some of it has to do with the person responsible for it, but the course has personality. I like the course because it takes me out of my comfort zone and really tests me physically and mentally. Even at 21/23 holes it's going to be a long day of golf. There will be some cool distractions to help raise money for USWomens in Austin to help take the edge off. It will be a tuff tournament for most people and the person that holds it together and executes not only good shots, but a good game plan will win.

[JimKelly]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

So you want tin cup with no drop zone.
That's what I wanted.
That still leaves you with a chance to loose it on one hole. That's kind of the point with score separation by the way. Just practice and make the shot. Be the one that makes the 2 and you win in 1 hole.

Btw you can loose on almost any hole on that course. Especially if your putt rolls 45 feet away and you can't hit the comeback.

All of Larry's points are spot on No DZ, it should be done like US Masters a lay up area.

[ChrisMacG]

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

Which hole is Amen Corner? Is that the new hole right before Death Row?

Nope. It's #19 on the course now. The hole after you throw over the back pond. You walk down the embankment and throw between the pond and the fence up towards the tee for #18.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

So you want tin cup with no drop zone.
That's what I wanted.
That still leaves you with a chance to loose it on one hole. That's kind of the point with score separation by the way.

Tin cup on that hole is a horrible idea for a tournament.
And that's not what the point of "scoring separation" is.

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

I liked the way we played it for USMasters with a "cheeze-out" zone over to the right.

Tighten up the lay-up zone a bit and that's a solid risk/reward hole.

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

The rule of 2 was put in place to maximize score separation with speed of play in mind. We also didn't make it tin cup for some and not others because we like it when everyone plays the same course.

Everyone playing the same course, i.e tees, is the TD's easy way out that leaves some divisions playing a course that isn't well suited for them.