Saturday Morning Mini restarting

[FlyinBryan]

Since you can't play standing under the bridge at any point, I'd say the playing surface is the bridge itself. Stand on the bridge within 30cm behind the disc.

[derek]

Originally Posted by JimKelly

You mentioned unplayable lie, that use to have a 1 stroke penalty added to the persons card and the disc is moved to the next playable lie directly behind the marker no closer to the basket with in 5 meters or go back to your previous lie.

That's been changed and the optional re-throw was put in with 1 stroke penalty.

I'm not familiar with a free casual relief from park equipment/bridge. Has there been a case discussed under rules Q&A that gives a casual relief to a bridge with no ob under it.

I think its clear this scenario isnt covered anywhere, and the question of penalty is unclear. In that case, the benefit of the doubt goes to the player and they throw with no penalty.

You could stick your leg under the bridge and get within 30cm i guess, the bridge isnt that wide. I think it would be up to the course designers to figure out what the rule is regarding the bridge, but until then you treat it like casual water and play behind if you have to.

[derek]

Originally Posted by FlyinBryan

Since you can't play standing under the bridge at any point, I'd say the playing surface is the bridge itself. Stand on the bridge within 30cm behind the disc.

Yep I think that would work too.

[FlyinBryan]

or, use 803.08B: Disc Above or Below the Playing Surface

B. If a disc comes to rest below the playing surface, its lie shall be marked on the playing
surface directly above it. If the point directly above the disc is an out-of-bounds area, the
disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked an penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly above the disc is inside a solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the solid obstacle.

[Sportsministryguy]

Great discussion! I would say that if a disc lands under the bridge on hole 21, the lie shall be makered on the line of play immediately behind the bridge. No Penalty stroke or OB is declared. It certainly makes for a tough shot with the railings on the bridge but for now that is the only obstacle on that hole.

[JimKelly]

Originally Posted by FlyinBryan

or, use 803.08B: Disc Above or Below the Playing Surface

B. If a disc comes to rest below the playing surface, its lie shall be marked on the playing
surface directly above it. If the point directly above the disc is an out-of-bounds area, the
disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked an penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly above the disc is inside a solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the solid obstacle.

I didn't think 803.09 applied because, the disc doesn't come to rest below the playing surface.

The disc is actually on the playing surface. That is my reasoning for thinking the bridge is more like a picnic table. The disc wouldn't be marked on top of the picnic table.

[JimKelly]

Originally Posted by FlyinBryan

Since you can't play standing under the bridge at any point, I'd say the playing surface is the bridge itself. Stand on the bridge within 30cm behind the disc.

I don't think it's about standing (ex. picnic table) you can get down on your back, on one leg or some other stance. If the person can recover the disc from behind without aid, then a point of contact more than likely can be made.

Originally Posted by derek

I think its clear this scenario isnt covered anywhere, and the question of penalty is unclear. In that case, the benefit of the doubt goes to the player and they throw with no penalty.

I did use the benefit of the doubt on card at one of the Sat Mini.
The scenario is clear if the bridge is determined to be park equipment.

Originally Posted by derek

You could stick your leg under the bridge and get within 30cm i guess, the bridge isnt that wide.

That sounds like the best thing to do. The other option would be re-throw

[FlyinBryan]

Sounds like we need Doug to make a local ruling on the bridges for #5 and #21 that will be stated at the players meetings or posted.

Personally I don't see why you couldn't play on top of a picnic table!

[derek]

Originally Posted by Sportsministryguy

Great discussion! I would say that if a disc lands under the bridge on hole 21, the lie shall be makered on the line of play immediately behind the bridge. No Penalty stroke or OB is declared. It certainly makes for a tough shot with the railings on the bridge but for now that is the only obstacle on that hole.

my thoughts exactly

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by JimKelly

What is the call?

The disc lands under the bridge on #21.

What does the person do next?

According to the PDGA definitions and rules, what is the bridge on 21 considered to be?

A playing surface, park equipment, or an obstacle?

Without a prior-to-the-round ruling on the bridge from the event director the bridge is park equipment and you get NO CASUAL RELIEF from it.

If your disc landed under the bridge you needed to get a supporting point within 30cm of the disc for your next throw. If you decided that was not possible, or not desirable you had two other options: (1) "optional rethrow" from your last lie with a penalty stroke, or (2) "optional relief" of up to infinite* distance along the line of play with a penalty stroke.

If the event director declares the area under the bridge eligible for casual relief then a player may mark their lie along the line up play up to 5m behind the disc.

There is no PDGA rule provision for forcing a player to play "immediately behind the bridge".

[* EDIT: technically not "infinite" you max out at about half the circumference of the Earth.]