Suggestions for Birdshot

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

To my way of thinking, if I pay $30 to enter a tournament and it advertises 100% payout, then I am expecting that all $30 of my entry fee is going into payout. That means that some else covered my PDGA entry fee and any "facility" fees.

And I think a lot of players who've never been involved in the details of running a tournament think the same way.

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

If the PDGA fee isn't covered, then it isn't 100% payout. Now as far as what the PDGA considers as payout percentage on their TD report, it DOES allow for deducting the PDGA fees etc. but that isn't 100% of the entry fee in my book...it is what the PDGA considers as 100% (which of course excludes their fees. - how coincidental.)

And this is why Birdshot (or any of the many other organizations running PDGA tournaments) is okay by the letter of the PDGA law in claiming 100% payout (after deducting fees).

I'm still debating this myself on how to best handle it. As I posted above it's a tradeoff of simplicity for the majority vs. the devil in the details for a vocal minority.

[ThePatrick]

Originally Posted by JimG520

I've also run tournaments where we had to pay a facility fee, and if I didn't have sponsorship to cover that, then I made it clear on the flyer that that money was separate from the entry fees.

Our sign up sheets show all of that and use the term base entry fee to show what goes into the payout pool.

[JimG520]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

Our sign up sheets show all of that and use the term base entry fee to show what goes into the payout pool.

I agree. After the discussion about the most recent Day Of Course event, I agreed that Birdshot made it very clear that those fees would not be included in the payout. So,thanks for being clear and honest up front.

[ChingLizard]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

And I think a lot of players who've never been involved in the details of running a tournament think the same way.


And this is why Birdshot (or any of the many other organizations running PDGA tournaments) is okay by the letter of the PDGA law in claiming 100% payout (after deducting fees).

I'm still debating this myself on how to best handle it. As I posted above it's a tradeoff of simplicity for the majority vs. the devil in the details for a vocal minority.

I have been involved in the details of running such a tournament - and even knowing the mechanics behind the PDGA calculation of payout percentage (what gets included and not) doesn't change the fact that if it is advertised that there is 100% payout, then the expectation is there that all entry fees are going into payout. That seems like a reasonable assumption on the part of anyone reading that "100%" part.

If the PDGA and facility fees aren't being covered by external sponsorship somehow, and those fees are deducted from the entry fee, then it is misleading to claim that it is 100% payout. The only way to be able to make that claim is separate the entry fee from the rest of the fees. That way, you CAN legitimately claim 100% entry fee payout and still wash the PDGA/facility fees separately.

There is a common definition (and understanding of) 100 percent. There is NOT a common understanding of the way that the PDGA calculates their payout percentage and what their definition of 100% payout is. And right there is where the breakdown in understanding occurs.

IMHO it would seem best to avoid making the claim of 100% payout if you plan on deducting anything from the entry fee. It avoids any opportunity for misunderstanding. Birdshot doesn't need to advertise "100% payout" in order to attract attendees. As soon as it does get advertised however, most folks are going to interpret it as every dollar I pay for entry fee (which is the definition of 100%) is going into payout.

If you just don't make that 100% claim, then you don't risk the chance of ruffling anyone's feathers about it. Then you don't have to do so much of that old "bob n weave" jazz.

Larry

[bmugwump]

Agreed...but I figured after all of this that everyone knew what our knee-jerk reaction was! I mean, do we really need to have a calculas class here? Okay....how do we figure it then....97.6 % of payout? Jeez!!!

[JimG520]

It's not calculus, it's arithmetic. And if you want to make it more clear state something like "X% payout (after deducting PDGA and series fees)" or

100% Payout*

*not including PDGA and series fees

Which is what you did on the DOC 4ever website.

*All entry fees include a $2 PDGA fee, a $2 facilities fee & a $2 online registration fee. Pro entry fees include a $2 Series fee. Amateur entry fees include a $1 Series fee.

[DPdiscer]

The wrong word was used. Don't say "entry" fee. Say 100% of "Division" fee.

[griff]

hey chuck, i was lookin at the results from hoho, i think you may have me as not accepting cash. no $ amount shows on my pdga ratings detail either, just askin if you'd look into it

[DPdiscer]

Hey Griff,
I will look into it right away and get back with you.

[bmugwump]

Well, Jester has come & gone since we changed the payout structure & I think everyone was generally pleased with the restructuring. Thanks to Jim Kelly for starting the conversation that led to this...and my personal apologies to Jim for lumping him in with another person who jumped on Jim's bandwagon & basically accused Birdshot of stealing! Sorry Jim...didn't mean to do the guilt by association thing! Anyway....we're trying really hard to make Birdshot DG ProShop's events the best that they can be & really appreciated all the input that made this latest change happen...thanks, Birdshooters!