Forum Organization / Set-up Poll

[Miller]

But the point I'm trying to make is that if I want information on TLV (or any other course, big or small) it's really easy to navigate to that course's thread and see all the posts. My concern is if I want to know information about a course that doesn't have a league (or some other qualification that deserves it's own thread in Larry's system) that I will then have to sift through a bunch of comments about various courses hoping I find what I'm looking for. Am I just mis-reading things?

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by Miller

But the point I'm trying to make is that if I want information on TLV (or any other course, big or small) it's really easy to navigate to that course's thread and see all the posts. My concern is if I want to know information about a course that doesn't have a league (or some other qualification that deserves it's own thread in Larry's system) that I will then have to sift through a bunch of comments about various courses hoping I find what I'm looking for. Am I just mis-reading things?

One of the same issues I have with the proposed change as well....

[mattman]

I just want to waste space...
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[ChingLizard]

Originally Posted by Miller

But the point I'm trying to make is that if I want information on TLV (or any other course, big or small) it's really easy to navigate to that course's thread and see all the posts. My concern is if I want to know information about a course that doesn't have a league (or some other qualification that deserves it's own thread in Larry's system) that I will then have to sift through a bunch of comments about various courses hoping I find what I'm looking for. Am I just mis-reading things?

...and the point I've been trying to make Miller is that if you are searching for information about a course, then you need to be searching in the reference area which would be the course directory on the front page. This is the DISCUSSION area not shouldn't be used a reference source.

And if you feel like there is something that needs to be discussed about one of the "other" courses, then you will still be able to find it under Other Area Courses area...a thread for each of the more obscure courses will be found there and they can be alphabetical.

It'll be two weeks out before any changes get made. This weekend is PYMWYMI and so I won't be making any changes until after I get back. If anyone feels that strongly about me NOT making any changes, then I'd strongly suggest that you attend the HFDS Club meeting on Tuesday November 3rd and raise your concerns there. That's next Tuesday!

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by zipper

As for the concept of lists of courses alphabetically vs. real use, well your poll says it all, with the exception of, who is voting?

Actually, it does say who is voting. Click on the numbers to view.

Originally Posted by zipper

My method of operation is to go to the end users at my company and ask them what they need.

Exactly what the intent of this poll was.

Originally Posted by zipper

Think about it like this. When I fill out one of those forms that require my address, and I have to go down that list to find TX or even if I type in that T and it takes me to Tennessee, and I still have to go into the menu to get to TX - well, I'm not impressed.

Did you know that you can just hit the 'T' key twice to get you directly to Texas and skip the menu altogether?

Much like you can click on "New Posts" or "Today's Posts" and skip the forum menu altogether.

Originally Posted by zipper

The idea that the tools they need and want to get to fast would be in a long alphabetical list vs. the tools they need being at the top of the list is a no-brainer in their world.

Either method will work, but the alphabetical listing is only preferred in a very logical sense of the word. It is not as useful IMO based on long experience. Will it work, yes. Now in the business world, I would never use alphabetical. If each tool use added three seconds to an end users schedule, and they go into the tools list 50 times a day, and I have 100 end users, well, a small issue becomes a costly one pretty quickly.

Sticking with your example of the State field of an Address form... the proposed change would be like ordering the states in the menu as such:

California
Texas
New York
Florida
Illinois
Pennsylvania
Ohio
Michigan
Georgia
North Carolina
New Jersey
Virginia
OTHERS

Now how intuitive is that to you if you went looking for Georgia??

And if you were lucky enough that Georgia was in the top 12 at least scrolling through the list eventually yields your choice. If you're looking for Arizona or Colorado then you're stuck sifting through 38 random threads in the OTHERS category.

Maybe there's a reason they list those states in alphabetical order... if all websites followed the logic behind this proposed change then California would always be listed first because it has the highest population. But they don't do that. They use a relatively universal system that is understood by virtually everyone. And well built sites give you hooks to get to what you want even faster, like hitting the 'T' key twice, or clicking on "New Posts".

Originally Posted by zipper

Granted, this is a fun site and efficiencies aren't as important. On the other hand, take a look at what happens to sites that are hard to navigate.

I think the proposed change would make this site harder to navigate for a majority of the users.

Originally Posted by zipper

Then think about use of this site on a netbook, or even more so, on a handheld device (the future of computers, that is). That long alphabetical list which looks grand on a 19 or 20 inch monitor looks like a pain on a smaller screen.

I don't have to think about it, I've done it. I semi-regularly use my netbook to peruse the HFDS forums and/or post here. And I've used my Treo handheld device to do so as well.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

Yeah...I'm a techno-rookie and don't have the faintest idea about what I'm doing. And...by inference from your statement "I'm an engineer, I thrive on logic. I see no logic in the proposed change." an IT programmer with 30+ years of programming experience doesn't know jack about logic...or efficiency of it.

Larry you can infer all you want, but there was no such implication in what I wrote. I'll reiterate my point as I don't see the logic behind this proposed change that makes this site better.

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

Almost 20 of the Course topics have fewer than 50 posts in them...and several of those are only that busy because Birdshot held a mini there and folks posted up stuff there instead of the in town tournaments area.

So how about their TRUE commonality ERic which is: THEY DON'T GET DISCUSSION? <--- That is what I'm talking about and my whole objection to the current structure is!!!

So what?

I just don't see where reserving that space for potential discussion has a negative impact on this site.

[LOU18132]

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

You don't have the expertise but you purport to tell someone that has been voluntarily doing this for the last 7-8 years this he should be doing it "some other way" ???

I have an opinion and will voice it, is there a problem with that? If there is let me know. I remember how things were done and a vote was not taken on this one as you volunteered, wasn't on the agenda at the time. Do as you like on this forum/board, you always have. Why change, why accept input from others, not your way of doing things. Larr-I

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by LOU18132

Thanks Eric.

You're welcome Lou.

[tarazarr]

I've really really been trying to stay away from drama these days and I mean nothing personal to anyone, but what was the point of the pole?

If you post a pole, shouldn't you go with the resluts? If not why post it?


Btw- I surf this site from an iPod because I know where to find what I'm looking for, what's important to one may be of absolutely no interest to another
Peace

[zipper]

And Therin lies the problem Eric. You are judging your end users by your skill set. It's a problem many programmers exhibit and may not be the best way to judge how to set up a tool. But then, I've been wrong many times
in my life and this may be no different.

BTW the who is filling out the poll question was retorical and was meant to comment on the possibility that the poll might not reflect ease
of use or rational behavior or even what people might find useful. Heck it
might even reflect that people like you, and dislike Larry given that it is biased by what has occurred on the MB. So, what value is in it?

Originally Posted by ERicJ

Actually, it does say who is voting. Click on the numbers to view.




Exactly what the intent of this poll was.




Did you know that you can just hit the 'T' key twice to get you directly to Texas and skip the menu altogether?

Much like you can click on "New Posts" or "Today's Posts" and skip the forum menu altogether.




Sticking with your example of the State field of an Address form... the proposed change would be like ordering the states in the menu as such:

California
Texas
New York
Florida
Illinois
Pennsylvania
Ohio
Michigan
Georgia
North Carolina
New Jersey
Virginia
OTHERS

Now how intuitive is that to you if you went looking for Georgia??

And if you were lucky enough that Georgia was in the top 12 at least scrolling through the list eventually yields your choice. If you're looking for Arizona or Colorado then you're stuck sifting through 38 random threads in the OTHERS category.

Maybe there's a reason they list those states in alphabetical order... if all websites followed the logic behind this proposed change then California would always be listed first because it has the highest population. But they don't do that. They use a relatively universal system that is understood by virtually everyone. And well built sites give you hooks to get to what you want even faster, like hitting the 'T' key twice, or clicking on "New Posts".




I think the proposed change would make this site harder to navigate for a majority of the users.




I don't have to think about it, I've done it. I semi-regularly use my netbook to peruse the HFDS forums and/or post here. And I've used my Treo handheld device to do so as well.