Redesign Before Concrete Tees?

[bettercounsel]

As club president, I am polling the disc golf community about how to proceed. In light of the recent tree loss, should the course be redesigned before installing the concrete tees?

A year ago it was decided at an HFDS meeting to keep Moffit the way it is, install concrete tees and then afterwards plant trees to replace the trees lost over the years. Recently many trees were lost greatly impacting the course. Also, considering the drought conditions which may go on for another year or two, Houston Parks & Rec. and Trees for Houston would not plant new trees until the drought has lifted. Also, such new trees would be seedlings and take a few years to grow-up.

At the last HFDS meeting, the issue was discussed and the decision was made to get input from club members and the disc golf community and discuss the issue again at the January 2012 HFDS meeting. It was suggested at the last meeting that the time to get a redesign approved by Houston Parks and Rec would significantly delay the installation of concrete tees. It was also suggested that a complete redesign would require a lot of effort in relocating baskets and tee-markers.

[nomad]

At this point I think you have to do the redesign. The course is not nearly the same without the trees to provide some obstacles.

[ThePatrick]

Originally Posted by nomad

At this point I think you have to do the redesign. The course is not nearly the same without the trees to provide some obstacles.

Hence the reason to replant. This course is historical and the property does not lend it self to an awesome redesign so it should retain its nostalgic value and be replanted with trees to make up for those lost over the years.

I am a staunch supporter of harder courses in Houston, but that property will never support much more challenge than it does now without reforestation. So leave it design wise as is and if it's too easy for you, there are two harder courses 15 minutes away. Leave Moffit to those learning how to play the game and then take them to Jester or TAT and put the fear in them.

[Suemac]

Well said Patrick!

[nomad]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

Hence the reason to replant. This course is historical and the property does not lend it self to an awesome redesign so it should retain its nostalgic value and be replanted with trees to make up for those lost over the years.

I am a staunch supporter of harder courses in Houston, but that property will never support much more challenge than it does now without reforestation. So leave it design wise as is and if it's too easy for you, there are two harder courses 15 minutes away. Leave Moffit to those learning how to play the game and then take them to Jester or TAT and put the fear in them.

I am not saying dont replant. If HPARD had something setup like the Forestry service, then by all means - replant is the answer. However, even with the fastest growth, it will take 15-20 years for the seedlings to turn into mature trees. Plus, with all the roots underneath the baskets (from the nearby trees that used to surround them) it will prove difficult for anything new to grow unless the entire area is dug up- Including the baskets.

Of course we will need to replant, thats a given. My thought is that it might be good at this time to alter the course some to better utilize what is still there, regardless of historical value

[High_Iron]

I am very much in favor of NOT doing a serious redesign on the Moffitt course for the following reasons:

1. We have had several more difficult courses come into existence lately, namely Texas Army Trails and the new T C Jester configuration that cater to disc golfers desiring more difficult venues. A couple of minor alterations to Moffitt would be okay with me, such as moving the #4 regular (short) tee back into the wooded area behind the current tee box or next to that area, but no serious changes should be considered.
2. Due to the mentioned historical significance of the course, I am not in favor of serious alterations.
3. Many of us have a longstanding relationship with some courses. We have these holes that we know we can ace if we can just get that drive high enough and long enough to hyzer through the gap into the basket, etc. Showing up at a course and finding your years of struggle to obtain that goal now dashed because the shot is no longer even possible can really be depressing.
4. It needs to be kept in mind that new disc golfers are often overwhelmed by the more difficult courses, and can quickly become discouraged by repeatedly getting hard wood on their throws, so we need to keep some courses of moderate difficulty for the newer players. Not many new players and even not-so-new players can throw 350+ and nail a 10-foot gap from 75 feet.
5. Casual players (i.e., those playing only a couple of times a month) need such moderately difficult courses.
6. In some parts of the park, so many trees are missing, there's little use in a redesign. Throwing north-south over a wide open area is not much better than throwing east-west over the same area.
7. As mentioned by others, Moffitt Park is not large enough to develop a competitive course for advanced players. To attempt that would probably result in a course similar to MacGregor where the fairways are so close that when driving on some holes you run the real risk of hitting people putting or driving on neighboring holes.

I am playing about half of my rounds at T C Jester now, and have also enjoyed playing at the tough Texas Army Trails course, but lets keep a well rounded variety of courses in the Houston area so as to appeal to disc golfers of all ages and abilities. We should plant new trees to replace those that have passed on, but that should also be kept within reason.

[LOU18132]

Originally Posted by High_Iron

I am very much in favor of NOT doing a serious redesign on the Moffitt course for the following reasons:

1. We have had several more difficult courses come into existence lately, namely Texas Army Trails and the new T C Jester configuration that cater to disc golfers desiring more difficult venues. A couple of minor alterations to Moffitt would be okay with me, such as moving the #4 regular (short) tee back into the wooded area behind the current tee box or next to that area, but no serious changes should be considered.
2. Due to the mentioned historical significance of the course, I am not in favor of serious alterations.
3. Many of us have a longstanding relationship with some courses. We have these holes that we know we can ace if we can just get that drive high enough and long enough to hyzer through the gap into the basket, etc. Showing up at a course and finding your years of struggle to obtain that goal now dashed because the shot is no longer even possible can really be depressing.
4. It needs to be kept in mind that new disc golfers are often overwhelmed by the more difficult courses, and can quickly become discouraged by repeatedly getting hard wood on their throws, so we need to keep some courses of moderate difficulty for the newer players. Not many new players and even not-so-new players can throw 350+ and nail a 10-foot gap from 75 feet.
5. Casual players (i.e., those playing only a couple of times a month) need such moderately difficult courses.
6. In some parts of the park, so many trees are missing, there's little use in a redesign. Throwing north-south over a wide open area is not much better than throwing east-west over the same area.
7. As mentioned by others, Moffitt Park is not large enough to develop a competitive course for advanced players. To attempt that would probably result in a course similar to MacGregor where the fairways are so close that when driving on some holes you run the real risk of hitting people putting or driving on neighboring holes.

I am playing about half of my rounds at T C Jester now, and have also enjoyed playing at the tough Texas Army Trails course, but lets keep a well rounded variety of courses in the Houston area so as to appeal to disc golfers of all ages and abilities. We should plant new trees to replace those that have passed on, but that should also be kept within reason.

I agree.

[ERicJ]

Nostalgic value is really only applicable if the nostalgic trees are still there. Replanting them will be 10+ years before they're relevant again. What are you going to say when you tour-guide players who haven't seen the course before: "Well, if you image the three trees that used to be there, there, and there... this hole used to be moderately challenging."??

Houston currently has an abundance of "moderately challenging" (is Moffitt even that hard?) courses. You can dial down any course's challenge level when you have the budget for multiple sets of tees.

[griff]

idea, same short boxes with concrete. "update" long boxes,concrete and moderate redesign. and a third set of boxes, post only, at varied length and difficulty. three coures, one park, everybody

[griff]

and in place of some of the trees that were lost , get matchu to make some big ass sculptures